Ok firstly, apologies to those who don't live in the UK or RoI, it goes way over my head if there's too much to compare and contrast against, which is why I thought it sensible to restrict it to these here islands in NW Europe.
I was wondering in a history class today who the greatest leader of this land was after doing some research on Churchill. I knew before that Churchill isn't all he's cracked up to be, he's a turncoat, a warmongerer and to some extent a war criminal relating to his ruthless strategies to demoralise and destroy a retreating enemy (bombing of Dredsen for example). That's my take on Churchill at least, I think he's an opportunist crook. But, I would suggest 3 names as the greatest leaders of these islands, wonder if anyone here (especially the Irish on the first one) would agree...
James Connolly - Fought for home rule for all of Ireland, looked for a secular solution to the problems between the Catholics and Protestants on the island, and resisted British Tyrannical reign of the Island.
Clement Atlee - In my opinion one of the greatest leaders world wide in the 20th Century, his government founded the NHS and the modern British welfare state. It was a truely revolutionary period for all parts of British society, and with over a 11 million men serving in the war from the commonwealth alone, Atlee's administration managed to achieve incredibly low unemployment numbers and set the country on the road to recovery, not financial ruin.
Oliver Cromwell - He was in support of full adult suffrage in 1600s, he was religiously tolerant, which in those days was something else, quite revolutionary, he attempted to abolish the (at the time very authoritarian) monarchy and ultimately accellerated the political development of the country. He ordered troops at Drogheda to not attack unarmed civilians, and the town hadn't surrendered before hand, which to be fair was unusual in these times as well.
So those are my three, my personal favourite is Atlee, but I'd imagine we'll have a few Thatchers and Churchills to come. I'd be interested to know what people think, as evaluation of history's leaders is usually very difficult.
Who is the greatest leader of the British Isles?
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GadgetBoy
Irish history books have a different view on Cromwell. The word butcher is mentioned. Religious tolerance certainly isn't. I suspect the truth is somewhere inbetween.
Churchill certainly had his faults but he was the right person in the right place at the right time.
Connolly is a hero or villain depending on your point of view on this side of the pond. Irrespective of that he was key to a chain of events that lead to the situation we have now in Northern Ireland which, while there are still some problems, is infinitely better than the dark days.
Atlee I know little about so can't comment.
Churchill certainly had his faults but he was the right person in the right place at the right time.
Connolly is a hero or villain depending on your point of view on this side of the pond. Irrespective of that he was key to a chain of events that lead to the situation we have now in Northern Ireland which, while there are still some problems, is infinitely better than the dark days.
Atlee I know little about so can't comment.
I did know that there is controversy over Cromwell in Ireland, and they do view him as a butcher. But, comparing Cromwell to the protestant Kings and Queens of this era, he looks a hell of a lot nicer to have in power.
And it is true that Cromwell was comparitively tolerant to religions, as a Puritan he readmitted the Jews into the UK and reorganised the national church in a manner that led it away from unwarranted butchery.
For the 17th Century, he was a radical.
And it is true that Cromwell was comparitively tolerant to religions, as a Puritan he readmitted the Jews into the UK and reorganised the national church in a manner that led it away from unwarranted butchery.
For the 17th Century, he was a radical.
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baxter
Er, so killing less wogs/irish/scots/etc than his predecessors makes him ok. I think not!Sbunce wrote:I did know that there is controversy over Cromwell in Ireland, and they do view him as a butcher. But, comparing Cromwell to the protestant Kings and Queens of this era, he looks a hell of a lot nicer to have in power.
Another -1 for Cromwell.
Connelly and Attlee get my vote.
Keir Hardy would be another of my nominations.
Tony Benn would have to be in my list.
And if anyone mentions Thatcher, consider this a -1 for her.
