Today I mostly .....

Any topics of general interest (not lada related), post them here.
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Zelandeth
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Re: Today I mostly .....

Postby Zelandeth » Thu May 31, 2018 12:56 pm

New ECU fitted in the Riva. We now have two error codes showing - this is massive progress as it shows we have a working diagnostic system.

13 - no oxygen sensor signal.
35 - idle speed error.

The first is no huge surprise given the fault with the original ECU, but the idle speed error is a new one on me. Will work on resolving the lambda sensor issue first.

At least I feel I'm following actual faults now rather than working totally blind.
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Current fleet: 93 Lada Riva 1.5EFi Estate, 89 Saab 900i, 75 AC Model-70, 96 Citroen Xantia 2.0T Activa, 85 Sinclair C5.

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Re: Today I mostly .....

Postby Zelandeth » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:02 pm

Had a chance to look at the Lada this evening.

Can confirm that the Lambda sensor on the car is totally, completely and utterly dead. Both the heater and sensing element are open circuit.

Will get a new one ordered at the weekend then see where we stand.

Interestingly this ECU sticks 1.5V across the sensor when it's open circuit...have to wonder whether the 0.5V reference signal quoted in the manual is incorrect? This was there when I first hooked it up to nothing other than power, so isn't something the car has done to the ECU!

Will be interesting to see what happens with a good sensor in... hopefully that will sort it!
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Current fleet: 93 Lada Riva 1.5EFi Estate, 89 Saab 900i, 75 AC Model-70, 96 Citroen Xantia 2.0T Activa, 85 Sinclair C5.

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Re: Today I mostly .....

Postby Tom. » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:21 pm

Zel, the pic below is a paragraph in the service manual. I'm sure you already know this but just in case.

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97 Niva 1.7i
2107 Riva Sport
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Re: Today I mostly .....

Postby Zelandeth » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:00 pm

Worth repeating, but yes. Back in the early 90s a lot of folks would still be using cheap analogue meters. Most digital meters made anywhere in the last 20 years that cost more than £10 should have input impedances in the 10s of Megohms.

I usually have the opposite problem - getting artificially high readings with a digital meter on old valve era kit when the manuals expected you to be using an AVO or similar meter...hence having both to hand.
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Current fleet: 93 Lada Riva 1.5EFi Estate, 89 Saab 900i, 75 AC Model-70, 96 Citroen Xantia 2.0T Activa, 85 Sinclair C5.

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Re: Today I mostly .....

Postby Zelandeth » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:38 pm

All right you bucket of Russian bolts...you want to play it that way? We can do that.

So...new oxygen sensor fitted (the original one IS dead)... exactly the same fault.

No oxygen sensor signal.
Idle speed error.

Bloody thing.

The only clue we have is this downright odd +1.51V offset on what should be the oxygen sensor signal ground. Everything else looks fine - throttle position sensor is slightly out of spec at either end of its travel, but not massively and I've seen far worse not causing issues.

Tomorrow I'm going to reterminate *every* ground connection I can find. I have a sneaking feeling that there's a dodgy ground somewhere - quite possibly utterly unrelated to this circuit - that's backfeeding into the signal ground line from somewhere.

After all, if the fault is electrical and makes no sense whatsoever, it's usually a dodgy ground isn't it.

Thank goodness the Niva TBi manuals are so bloody good! They really are a godsend trying to sort this out.

Admit, a Ladascan/Tech I would be useful too, but that's being greedy. Have had the bits in stock for months to make the ALDL to serial adaptor anyway.

I'll get this bloody thing sorted...though if it's not done in the next week it may well get parked up for a couple of months as the major parts donor for the Invacar should be here soon, and I want to give that priority as I really want to get that ready for the Festival of the Unexceptional, and it's (somewhat ironically) more of a known quantity!
LOZ: Oddball cars, lighting information, and anything else I remember to upload!
Current fleet: 93 Lada Riva 1.5EFi Estate, 89 Saab 900i, 75 AC Model-70, 96 Citroen Xantia 2.0T Activa, 85 Sinclair C5.

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Re: Today I mostly .....

Postby Tom. » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:25 pm

Zel, Alan Bird told me years ago that the lambda sensors are a nightmare to get working properly if its not an original. Something to do with the grounding on the ECU side of things. If I remember rightly he said if you ground a non original lambda to a common ground it doesn't work properly. You need to ground it through another ECU operated sensor...if that makes sense :roll:

Forum member KingshillKampers had a similar problem a few years ago with his and he tried several aftermarket ones until I managed to get him an original. Which did sort the issue.

The original lambda is no more available, ( I've non in stock ) however I managed to get some a few years back from a Russian who used to work for Lada and in his wisdom stockpiled GM TBI stuff. I'll see if Elena can find his contact details, just in case.
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Re: Today I mostly .....

Postby Zelandeth » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:54 pm

That's interesting. It is a Bosch sensor, don't know what was originally fitted at the factory...

Interesting what you say about the ground... that's a very useful piece of information, and gives me an avenue to investigate tomorrow. Sounds like the ground path provided via the ECU maybe isn't quite able to sink enough current on that channel or something like that. I'll reroute it's connection to terminal A11 (CTS and TPS ground) and see what that does.

Curiouser and curiouser.

... it's a lot easier doing this now though with an ECU that can actually tell me what's going on though!
LOZ: Oddball cars, lighting information, and anything else I remember to upload!
Current fleet: 93 Lada Riva 1.5EFi Estate, 89 Saab 900i, 75 AC Model-70, 96 Citroen Xantia 2.0T Activa, 85 Sinclair C5.

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Re: Today I mostly .....

Postby Tom. » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:44 pm

Zelandeth wrote:That's interesting. It is a Bosch sensor, don't know what was originally fitted at the factory...


The original was made by AC Delco...AFS-79

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Re: Today I mostly .....

Postby Zelandeth » Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:11 am

Thankfully, thanks to some massive help from Tom, we now have an MOT.

CO% has dropped down from 5.5ish%, to 0.047%. Much better!

Only advisories were for some surface rust on the offside will (already noted), and that the rear silencer mountings have been "repaired." Um...yeah, with cable ties. The exhaust to be honest is shot from the cat back, it's been repaired more times than the car has been filled with fuel it looks like.

Given that I'm really hoping to keep this car for the long haul, I'm going to have a look at what a stainless system will cost. Especially as it gives the option to de-silence it a bit to put a bit of the voice that's muffled out by the cat back in.

Really looking forward to getting a few miles under the wheels now, I'd not really realised how much I'd missed driving it.
LOZ: Oddball cars, lighting information, and anything else I remember to upload!
Current fleet: 93 Lada Riva 1.5EFi Estate, 89 Saab 900i, 75 AC Model-70, 96 Citroen Xantia 2.0T Activa, 85 Sinclair C5.

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Re: Today I mostly .....

Postby Neil Chowney » Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:13 pm

Hmmm, can't see AC Delco (US company) supplying EOM equipment to the Russians.......

Would have thought that Bosch or GM would be the more likely first fitment seeing as they suppled the injection systems. (Yes I know GM is also US)

Cost of a bespoke SS exhaust for my twin cam Niva a fer years back was over £600..... However this was with the knitted downpipes and no cat and it was in 2 1/2 diameter pipe.
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Re: Today I mostly .....

Postby Tom. » Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:22 pm

ACDelco is an American automotive parts brand owned by General Motors. Factory parts for vehicles manufactured by GM are consolidated under the ACDelco brand, which also offers aftermarket parts for non-GM vehicles. Over its long history it has been known by various names such as United Motors Corporation, United Motors Service, and United Delco. The brand "ACDelco" should not be confused with GM's former AC Delco Systems, formed in 1994 from the merger of AC Rochester Division and Delco Remy Division. In 1995 Delphi Automotive Systems absorbed AC Delco Systems.
97 Niva 1.7i
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Zelandeth
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Re: Today I mostly .....

Postby Zelandeth » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:36 pm

Hoping the exhaust won't be too drastic as it's just going to be cat back, and doesn't require anything massively complicated.

Will be curious to see what the guys reckon is best regarding diameter and what type of silencers to use. My previous exhaust building experience has always been fastening whichever bits I happened to have laying around...be curious to speak to someone who actually knows their stuff.

Had a chance to take it out again today, and can confirm that it's definitely running way better than it was with the old ECU.

Hopefully will have a speed sensor on the way soon, the snagging list is getting smaller!
LOZ: Oddball cars, lighting information, and anything else I remember to upload!
Current fleet: 93 Lada Riva 1.5EFi Estate, 89 Saab 900i, 75 AC Model-70, 96 Citroen Xantia 2.0T Activa, 85 Sinclair C5.

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Re: Today I mostly .....

Postby Tom. » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:20 pm

Today I mostly bought these freehold garages and land. however the other residents have vehicle and foot right of way across the road to access their property. The concrete hard standing in front of the garages is not deemed the road.

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Side and rear panels together with the roof are actually in good order. Front concrete panels will be replaced with like for like or rebuilt in brick. Roller shutters will be fitted to each garage instead of up and over doors. The road will be bucket scraped and levelled with a new surface. My van has enough room to turn around comfortably.
97 Niva 1.7i
2107 Riva Sport
2104 Estate 1500

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Zelandeth
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Re: Today I mostly .....

Postby Zelandeth » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:41 pm

That's a nice little chunk of storage and/or working space. Any power into the site?
LOZ: Oddball cars, lighting information, and anything else I remember to upload!
Current fleet: 93 Lada Riva 1.5EFi Estate, 89 Saab 900i, 75 AC Model-70, 96 Citroen Xantia 2.0T Activa, 85 Sinclair C5.

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Re: Today I mostly .....

Postby Tom. » Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:43 pm

Zelandeth wrote:That's a nice little chunk of storage and/or working space. Any power into the site?


One garage does have power but it is fed from a house at the rear of the garages so not mine to use. I do need to investigate what's been placed in this garage floor though, see pic below right side .... filled in trench. I'm hoping it's a live phase rather than a water supply.

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Having these garages means I can finally get around to restoring my 2107 1600 sport. I've also decided to sell my Niva, it's sat in my garage for years because of the lack of space to repair it, but now I've got the space id rather concentrate on getting the 2104 and 2107 sorted so it's time for it to go.
97 Niva 1.7i
2107 Riva Sport
2104 Estate 1500


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